A Conversation with Jish aka Keaton Red
Josh and I caught up via zoom recently to discuss his recent musical releases of Banana in a Masks as well as his collection of B-sides. We had a vivacious discussion about his love of out of the ordinary samples, his infatuation with drums, musical authenticity and when he knew he had to go all in on his craft. Josh displayed absolute love for his body of work and could define for me the moments and memories that accompanied each song.
When I listened to Banana in a Mask for the first time, I was captivated by his clever use of audio samples placed sporadically throughout the project. Josh explained to me that he would never plan to make a sample, if he heard something he could use, he recorded it. These samples combined with abrasive, trappy drums and funk basslines creates Josh’s signature musical style.
Here is my full conversation with Jish.
Nik: First thing I really want to know is where did the banana come from? I’ve seen you with the suit everywhere for as long as I’ve known you.
Josh: The banana has been around for a long time. I joined student council in high school when I was a sophomore and one of the first things I did was helping to announce who won prom court. We would do these wake-up videos where the parents would let us into the winner’s houses at 1am to surprise them. Someone had a banana suit, and I was like “oh I want to be in that.” They gave me the suit and I wore it to surprise the winners. That was the first OG banana moment for me. I went to go give the guy his banana suit back and he told me to just keep it, and it has been a part of me ever since.
N: I love that, that’s such a good origin story. When did you decide that you wanted to put out of a body of work? Was it something you had been tinkering with for a while or did the idea come to you at once?
J: I’ve always been stoked and inspired by all the artists I grew up listening to, but I got super deep into hip-hop in high school. Then I wanted to learn how to make it because I knew I could, but I didn’t get the confidence to do so until the first two years of college. I ended up getting a bootleg of FL studio freshman year from someone in the dorms which I still use to this day.
N: I remember when you were in Orange County earlier this year and I watched you work on music one night and you were using FL. I was so impressed because you were scrolling through what looked like hundreds of kick drums to find the perfect one.
J: It took a lot of time and it has a learning curve for sure. I spent the first two months of 2020 studying abroad in London and that’s where I started to try to learn about the program. I was stuck between wanting to make music and wanting to go outside and see everything that the UK had to offer. It wasn’t until I came to Orange County when I really dove in and tried to pump out creative content as fast as I could. And not every time I’ve done that, I’ve come out with something I really liked. I’ve trashed a bunch of songs but some of those I come back to I’ve been able to go “oh I can make this into its own thing.” That’s how most of the songs on the project came to be. I looked back over stuff I made over the year while road tripping. During 2020 I was actually adventuring but I was also adventuring into my computer trying to figure out how to put sounds together.
N: Since you touched on the creative process, I am always fascinated on how everyone differs in that regard. Would you say you work best when you allocate a specific period of time to make music? Or do you work best when you more or less let things come to you naturally?
J: You know I’ve had so much free time in 2020, so I would say the latter. Sometimes I would be hanging out with friends and sharing something funny, if it had like an audio clip, I would take it and try to put it in to whatever I am making. That’s what happened to “Drowning Ferrets” on the project.
N: I’m glad you brought that track up because I really wanted to ask you about it. Every time I arrive at “Drowning Ferrets” while listening to the project, it perplexes me. What is going on with this track? It is such a weird concoction of noises; I’m almost disturbed but I love it because of how unique it is.
J: I can tell you the story of how it came to be. I was hanging out with Tarkan (Tarkan gave Josh a place to stay in Orange County earlier this year, shoutout Tarkan) since I was staying with him for a few weeks. I made an intro to a song with all these wild siren noises, and I played it for him. He randomly said it sounded like a drowning ferret. I found that funny it reminded me of the scene from The Big Lebowski when a ferret is thrown into a bathtub to intimidate The Dude. So, I decided I would incorporate that sound from the movie into whatever I made next and that’s where the song came to be.
N: I really want to get into a few song specific questions and the techniques you use for making music. Your use of samples is hilarious and every time I listen to Banana in a Mask, I find a new one. “Drowning Ferrets” is a great example of that. The first I want to ask about is, “BeachSideDeliHut.” Did you sample a spray bottle?
J: Yeah, that is. I worked at a deli for a while and I always knew I wanted to make a beat that was deli related. One day I got the chance to turn off the music in the store, so I went around just recording stuff and I made that introductory loop from sounds from the kitchen. For example, that shaking sound, that’s the ice machine.
N: That’s amazing, I love the idea of that and how you could piece all of those sounds into a song. I also liked how halfway through the song you sampled a Squidward quote when he says, “it’s been a pleasure serving you.” I remember when in first heard that I was out on a walk and I chuckled out loud on the street. The next one I really want to talk about is “Struggle Bussin’”, could you break that song down for me? I specifically remember not a horse, but someone imitating a horse being sampled and it has like these elevator music keys on it. Plus, at the end there is another Tarkan reference when he goes on his illuminati rant. It feels like three songs in one.
J: Yeah, dude, that was another one I made in one sitting for the most part. It was a weird day for me. Here’s the way I kind of put together Banana in a Mask: it kind of felt like a day in the banana, in the sense of how the first few songs are the early hours then midday so “Struggle Bussin’” is like the end of the day since it’s the last song on the project. I put it there because I thought it would be a cool closer for the project. Making it was an interesting time, I was throwing all these wild sounds together. I was at Tarkan’s house being careless about what anyone thought. Traditionally when I create a song, I make it as I arrange it. Like I’ve seen people on YouTube when they make a giant four bar loop and then they arrange it accordingly. The way I do it is almost like painting a picture on FL studio. You see like the hyper organized sectioned files like what professionals do, I like to wiggle around the program visually. So, “Struggle Bussin’” is kind of like a U shape when it is arranged visually. Like the tempo lowers in the second section and then it builds back up into the third section.
N: I love how you have this abstract way of putting a song together. It’s also crazy to me that “Struggle Bussin’” was made in one sitting. I really want to get more into your process, so what I am interested in is finding out where you start with a song.
J: It totally depends on the song, but I have bias, I feel like I am truly a drummer first. That’s where I really started, like when I annoyed my second-grade teacher by banging on the desk, then Rock Band drums and then actual drums. I took lessons for a summer and played with my youth group for a year or two. I have here and there drumming experience, but it has been crazy cool to see how computers have changed music. Like I can make music from only my laptop and nothing else and that’s crazy. Like you listen to Jpegmafia, he uses his DAW as an instrument. Drum programming is an extremely interesting part of that because you can do drum loops with the sequence rack to draw in drums. If I am able to keep making music, I would love to have a Kenny Beats setup and record on play with a drum set. I would prefer actual drumming, that’s how I really get into music. To go back to the question, my mind goes to the drums, but I’ve been trying to get into the other side of music like chords and scales. So, I try to challenge myself by starting with something melodic that’s not a drum piece.
We went on to discuss Josh’s journeys over 2020 when he began working seriously on putting out a project. He had previously been telling friends and family that he wanted to put out music, but he realized he needed something to show for it. His ever-growing number of files filled with unfinished work became a catalyst for him to build “Banana in a Mask.”
J: With 2020 being a crazy year I read somewhere that anxiety was a major proponent of pushing art forward. I mean I wasn’t anxious all the time but sometimes when things would get crazy throughout the year I would say “ok it’s time to make music.” I can’t wait for you to hear what I have when I release. I have the core of another project that I’m putting a lot of time and intention into. I got over the software hump and I realized as a musician, I can do everything from my bedroom, so now I have a microphone. It’s been a season of contemplating the responsibility of using your voice in the world. You’ve seen the music industry, there is an incredible saturation that exists because so many people have access to the tools to make music. If I want to financially support myself in music, I have to spend the time and money to get a following. Time and time again that seems to be my last priority when making music. That’s the tough thing is that I only partially consider myself an artist or a musician because I’m trying to figure out software half of the time and catch an internship. Where I’m sitting right now is that I have to find a way to finance music as a career. As a student I’m trying to do good on both halves, my music and potential career.
N: From what I gather, you would say you are planning to support yourself with music in the future?
J: That would kind of be the end goal, for anybody of course. And with music I always try to do everything as authentically as possible. I don’t want to try to be someone I’m not which is hilarious because obviously I’m not a banana but here we are, Banana in a Mask.
Josh shared with me some secret information about his upcoming project he plans to release. He explained that he hopes to be himself more and show vulnerability. The upcoming project will mainly focus on his hiatus from school during the global pandemic. An inspiration he cited for the project would be College Dropout due to his gap year giving him insight into what he wants to do with his life: make music.
I asked Josh if he had any words of wisdom for the people. I told him that it could be anything and as outrageous if he liked. He stopped for a second, something Josh rarely does because like me, his speech flows in an almost stream of consciousness way. Our conversation had paused for the first time in our hour-long talk.
“Listen to Keanu Reeves, he probably knows what he’s talking about.”